Ep 6 – A Tale of Two Spiders

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Podcast Transcript

Mike Miller  00:00

Oh, it’s the Mindwhirl Marketing podcast with your hosts Mike and Shelly Miller in the house.

Shelly Miller  00:06

Yes. In the house for our next episode.

Mike Miller  00:09

That’s right number this is it doesn’t matter what it is. This is gonna be a good one. We’re going to riff on something that Shelly has. I have no idea what the topic is.

Shelly Miller  00:19

You think you don’t know. But you’ll remember from the screen the other day?

Mike Miller  00:23

Oh, that’s right. Yes. Okay. Yeah, that this is gonna be a good one.

Shelly Miller  00:28

Yes. Yeah, they’re all good. Absolutely. I think they are. I wouldn’t waste people’s times with topics that you know, aren’t fun. And entertaining and educational. Exactly. No,

Mike Miller  00:38

no, we wouldn’t do that. We wouldn’t do that to you guys. Plus, well, there was okay to be honest. There was one that was long and boring. Number three. But

Shelly Miller  00:49

but very educational.


Yeah, see, it’s still if you knew how much

Mike Miller  00:52

data how much info was packed into that. The reason it’s long and boring is because it was just full of data. You could, you could spend five, six hours unpacking it. You could,

Shelly Miller  01:05

but there’s no outline with it. So then you could, you know, they wouldn’t take you that long. Exactly. And you’d have more information than you can imagine. And you would really have kind of a map to use for marketing. Exactly.

Mike Miller  01:17

Yeah. It’s, it’s amazing. It’s an amazing resource. So you know,

Shelly Miller  01:23

I’m telling you it’s worth it, but it is long.

Mike Miller  01:25

Yeah. And I’m not saying go check it out. But

Shelly Miller  01:29

I am give off marketing you want your company to grow you know, it’s worth it. Yeah, I read everything. I want to know what’s you know, everyone has different thoughts, educational thoughts, something that you might find you’re not doing that they were that they mentioned, so why not go check it out?

Mike Miller  01:48

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Sounds good. So it was a it was a great episode, even though that was the worst one. Okay,

Shelly Miller  01:59

yeah. We’ll agree to disagree to agree. Okay, there we go. Awesome.

Mike Miller  02:03

So this one’s gonna be even even better. I hope so. Yeah, there’s no there’s nowhere else but up.

Shelly Miller  02:08

All right. Well, you know that’s what we tried to get better every time.

Mike Miller  02:12

Yes, exactly. That’s that’s what it’s all about fail forward fast. learn and grow and make money. There you go. So what exactly what do you got for us today?

Shelly Miller  02:23

So here’s what I have. The other day I got up did my morning routine went to get in the shower, turn the water on peeked in realized there’s not going to be enough soap. So I pulled back at the out the curtain and we have a cool curtain that has pockets in it because I won’t go into it but there’s always a thing where you have to walk with with dripping feet to go get soap because somebody forgot to put so when I saw the shower curtain, and it had pockets, I was like perfect. I’ll put soap in there. You know? Hey, we got it all. Yeah, so anyway, reach my hand down in to get a bar at the bar. soap that was in their mind dove and spider webs. I mean, so the first thing I did was like, you know, oh, you know, and then saw him saw the spider and I’m like, Oh my god, it’s spider to a spider setup shop in my shower curtain, you know, and I was like, wow.

Mike Miller  03:18

And this odd place

Shelly Miller  03:20

an odd place. Well, this this odd feeling came over me that’s what’s really weird about it. I thought, Man, this poor spider goes into an interior bathroom. So there’s like no other bugs. He’s like, he is destined to fail. He has, you know, he set up his shop, he set up the his web, he found a place he climbed up the curtain. It was nice and you know, little warm and cozy in there. It did smell like soap. So that must not have bothered him which kind of freaked me out but that’s a whole other story. But you know, he built a nice web over the top of the pocket. You know all this too. You know, he thought he’d found a home and he thought that he was was going to be fed and warm and dry and I’m going so he set up shop spent basically all night from you know, the morning before that took a shower getting this all, you know set up to fail. I mean, there’s no way he could live we’ve never seen any type of insect in our bathroom so he’s never going to be fed. Right? And it reminded me of what we had been talking about last week, which was, you know, it’s funny how you can you think that you’re doing everything right and marketing. So you know, we’re using the spider analogy, you know, you you find a warm, dry place you you feel protected in it, you think you’re going to be fed in it. So you build your house or your web in it, and to you know, come to find out. No, actually you may have set up shop there but none of it is going to work. None of it is going to he’s not going to be fed and he’s not going to live so long. Like with marketing, you can set up shop you can get you can set up all your automations you can you can have emails written or you know, you can you can you believe that you have your ads correct you know that you have everything set up only to find out that actually no you don’t you set up like for example, this was something that you and I were talking about. They weren’t speaking to their ICP. So no matter the you know, the ad that was going out, they weren’t in the the ads weren’t being displayed in the place where their ICP was because they didn’t do any work on their ICP. And so all their money was for not they weren’t getting anything you know, as opposed to then outside my, my window in my closet and yes, I know that’s weird. I have a I have a window in my closet. There’s another spider and he is killing it. I mean, he’s killing it. So big time. There’s three spiders out there. Oh, and by the way I took pictures of this so you got it you gotta go to Instagram and see the pictures because this this spider I have watched him be you know like this tiny little spider tiny little thing and in a month because of all the food he’s catching all the you know everything he gets all the benefits he has. He’s like quadrupled in size, which again is like your marketing. So it all feels like everything comes together when you know your ICP, you are speaking to them, your content is written for them. So now your email automations work now your ads work. Now your retargeting works now you know all of it. Your sales calls work, everything works because you’ve identified who this is. And now you’re balling like this spider outside my closet window instead of the poor guy who he actually ended up you know, he disappeared. So thank goodness after I stuck my hand in it and messed up his web and You know, moved the shower curtain back and forth went, Oh, this isn’t the place. Yeah,

Mike Miller  07:03

yeah, exactly.

Shelly Miller  07:05

But that’s how marketing is.

Mike Miller  07:06

Well, yeah. What’s interesting about that is that I’ve always thought that marketing is a like a spider’s web. Yeah. Because you’re, that’s what you’re doing. You’re building a web, you’re building a trap for lack of a much better word. I mean, because it’s not really a trap. But But you’re attracting, you’re attracting clients lead, right. But you have to be able to capture them, right when they come in, right. So it’s almost as if, you know, you would if fewer spider you would want to build your nest next to a light. Exactly, exactly. Just kind of like the window you have.

Shelly Miller  07:48

Right? There’s a big light. So you know, it supports three or four spiders zactly

Mike Miller  07:53

right. So it’s a little small micro mark. Exactly.

Shelly Miller  07:55

There you go. A micro market of spiders. Really,

Mike Miller  08:01

but um, but that’s how business works, too. It is. And so what happens is a lot of times people think that they have a solution to a problem, but they don’t have a market, or they haven’t identified the market. They haven’t identified the ICP, right? profile. They don’t know who their ideal persona is that they’re targeting. So really, how it should work is you. Gary Halbert always said, you pick, you pick a market, then you develop a product for the market that fits the challenges the markets having you okay, right. Mm hmm. And then and that’s how you build a business. That’s how you become successful and then it’s sales letter, then then it’s message right? Well, he said, Actually, it was the it was the market than the product and then the delivery mechanism. Yes. So go Okay, Facebook ads or the web or sales letters or postcards. Or whatever tactic, yeah, but that’s the mechanism, right? So anyway, if you don’t know who you’re going after, and you don’t build a web that would attract those people and capture them when they come to your web. Yeah, then you’re gonna starve. You will. Yeah, you will, like the spider spider in the shower.

Shelly Miller  09:24

It’s true. It’s true. I mean, and you can think that, Oh, well, I have it all laid out. I do know. But sometimes that’s also why it takes an outside view of your business to see Are you really though, does this message really speak to your ICP? is is is you know, maybe and also, we’ve also found that some people have multiple ICP, so they might be the content that they’ve created might be good, but it’s not speaking to the right ICP. It’s a different one of their icps that they need to be targeting with those messages. So,

Mike Miller  09:55

right, right, exactly. And, and that’s the The important part about that too is if you if you marry the ICP, with the problem that they’re having, then the message that’s why the message is so important. Yes. Good point. Oh, like I just, you know, they say the difference between a $1 bill and $100 bill is the message on the paper. So, if the message is that important that you can pull people in to your, to your web, so that you can capture the leads, right. But the thing about that is the message is important, and we always talk about it on the front end, which is the attraction part, but it carries through every part of your marketing and sales process. It does even after the sale, yes. Then through into retention and referrals. It’s that message that and this is where you get into brand, okay? right because your business has a A brand a feel for the for it, right? Like if you think of Starbucks, it has a feel right. Right. Well, when you and I know people have done this, it’s hard, because I’m a man so it’s hard to do it in a universal way. Right? But like for instance cremo shave cream. Yes. Right? It’s like manly it has a special smell. So I think of it as a you know, a male product and they’ve realized that that’s that they’ve got a good brand, because then they started making shampoos and body washes and you know, they went from shave cream to, to beard care and to all these other things, right? Because they represent men,

Shelly Miller  11:48

right? Well, all of their, their marketing, their brand is targeted towards men. I mean, the stripes along the containers that remind you of a Barber’s pole, you know, all those

Mike Miller  11:58

Right, exactly. And then the clothes Little sayings inside the Capitol, because you got to pull the silver off, you know, to, you know, anyway. And there they have a little special insert that has like a really, you know, cute

Shelly Miller  12:13

message on it. Yeah,


I forgot about that. Yeah,

Shelly Miller  12:15

I never see those until you show me because yeah, I don’t use it. But yeah,

Mike Miller  12:19

but it is really neat way to what’s funny is those hidden messages all over the place. Yeah, a lot of people do that. They do. Like, you got some glasses the other day and case you opened it and it said what? What the Privy? Yeah. So awesome. Yeah, it did any shades of awesome. Yes.

Shelly Miller  12:36

Yeah. You’re many shades of awesome. Very good. You’re good memory.

Mike Miller  12:40

Yeah. Well, in that one case. Anyway,


it comes and goes. Exactly.

Mike Miller  12:46

I am getting old.

Shelly Miller  12:47

So together we make sure that we understand

Mike Miller  12:50

exactly. And I have a I have a short pencil that I write everything down. To be it’s a long memory. Okay. All right. Sorry for the pun, if you’ll pardon the pun. Anyway. Being in the right place in the right market is essential. It is having the right offer for that market. Yeah. is essential. Having the right message Yes. For that market is essential.

Shelly Miller  13:25

Being in the place where they are is is essential. So yeah, that’s a whole nother thing. You know, like, like the spider so if you just you just love Tick tock, but none of your your ICP is never on Tiktok right. You’re still the spider that’s in the shower pocket. You know? It’s not gonna help,

Mike Miller  13:44

right? No, it’s not it’s like trying to farm on rocky soil.


Yes. How many other metaphors Can you come up with? Probably a lot. Let’s don’t challenge ourselves to that one.

Shelly Miller  13:53

We played those games before. Anyway. It’s like

Mike Miller  13:56

trying to sail without a sailboat.

Shelly Miller  13:58

Yeah, you know

Mike Miller  14:00

That doesn’t make sense anyway. Exactly. So this is a really important point. Because if you’re not where you can benefit, right, so if, if you don’t know who your ICP is, you’re not gonna succeed. If you don’t know the problem they’re having, you’re not gonna succeed. If you’re not offering them what they want, you’re not gonna succeed, if you don’t have the message that resonates with them, then you’re not going to succeed. So it doesn’t matter if you have a really awesome website and marketing automation and all these tools. Right? You mean you could have Salesforce for a million dollars, right? You could have Marketo for another 500,000 a year, you’d have

Shelly Miller  14:50

Infusionsoft and while it’s on fusion soft anymore, yeah, you could have I mean, Active Campaign, you could you could be running all kinds of CRMs all kinds of spreadsheets. Let’s get smart sheets. I know we also need Microsoft Project and we need which, right? None of them will help no if you don’t have the correct exactly you

Mike Miller  15:09

got to start from the beginning you got to start with the basics for spiders survival is dependent upon placement, you know where they are right near where bugs will be right? It would buy a food source Yes, well, the same thing your business has to eat does has to survive. So it needs to be near a food source. Wow, these are horrible metaphors. But I think I think they are illustrative. illustrative. No demonstrative

Shelly Miller  15:40


Mike Miller  15:45


Shelly Miller  15:46

They are Yeah, so all those anything pick it? Yeah,

Mike Miller  15:50

the Exactly. Pick your whichever one you like, Yes, just show that one. But they all work because what we’re saying is is it If you don’t have these key ingredients, right, then your business isn’t gonna survive. It’s not gonna make it right. No matter how much you spend on marketing, no matter how much you spend on ads, you need to make sure that it the whole thing is one cohesive message to the right. ICP. Exactly, exactly. And, and that’s another thing. So, so let’s bring COVID into it.

Shelly Miller  16:24

Okay, right. Let’s do it. So it’s everywhere anyway, so you might as well bring it in here.

Mike Miller  16:30

Right, exactly. So if, you know, I see a lot of people going, what do I do in my business now that there’s COVID? Yeah, well, but they’re missing the ICP. They’re missing a message that resonates right. They’re missing it. Very good pieces. Yeah. Nothing. Don’t worry about COVID. Get get your basics straight, right.

Shelly Miller  16:54

Yes, yeah. And that’s not to say that you know, some people have something products or services or he can help people during COVID. But, you know, it’s a it’s, it’s not the correct place to start with, oh, we need to do something for COVID if you haven’t, if you haven’t identified all of the things that you always should for marketing, your ICP who your messages, you know, identify that first and then, you know, if you have something that will benefit people during COVID You know, that’s an extra benefit, then you can expand your ICP, but you have those messages, you have all of the your branding, your your ads set up, and you know who they are. To begin with your ICP is to begin with.

Mike Miller  17:37

Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. Which also brings up a good question, you know, or a good point. So, let’s imagine you’re a Fitness Studio right now. Mm hmm. Well, and and, and this is, you know, you need to be thinking about what are the basics what are the essentials? Well, for every business and In the fitness studios are a good example. I just realized, for every business they have to have a unique character that that, uh, Michael Sandel


Uh huh. Right, right. my pillow. Yes.

Mike Miller  18:12

That’s the best way to describe it. Every business needs a front man. Did you know every band has a front man? Mm hmm. You know, do you know the stones names? Or do you know Mick Jagger? Yeah, you know, right. I don’t know anybody in Def Leppard. So,


oh, no. Yeah. So,

Mike Miller  18:31

I’m going okay, other bands. I know Eddie Van Halen, and David Lee Roth. There you go. And I know Eddie Van Halen had a brother in there, but I don’t know his name. So you I mean, yes. There’s a front man. There’s someone who represents the group. There’s someone who represents your business too. So your Fitness Studio? Yeah. COVID comes you can’t have people in your studio. It’s It’s dangerous. Yeah. Right. Archer dangerous.


Oh, yeah.

Mike Miller  19:06

Anyway, so you have to you have to pivot. How are you going to pivot? Well, the only way to do it is to have online classes. Right. And God people through their training online,

Shelly Miller  19:21

yep. Individual or in group on video, zoom, you know, or just coaching.

Mike Miller  19:28

Exactly. So there’s two reasons why they’re well, so let’s say you have the ability and you can do it you zoom or whatever it is, and you can instantly tech not technologically switch from in person to online. Okay. What will keep your clients engaged? What is it that will keep clients so that you don’t have this loss, this attrition

Shelly Miller  20:01

You being in front of them, bam. Now I stopped. Oh, yeah. Michael Sandel

Mike Miller  20:05

right you’re the person right you’re the person and so they’re like I got I got to be with Tony. Yeah, yeah Tony’s gonna be calling me Tony and Tony’s gonna help me and Tony’s got me Tony knows Tony’s got my

Shelly Miller  20:19

goals and he knows how Miss level that what I want to obtain you know how I want to look

Mike Miller  20:25

I gotta talk to Tony I’m committed just Tony’s committed yes me and Tony we’re making this happen yeah or what

Shelly Miller  20:32

right is Tony guy needing I don’t know.

Mike Miller  20:35

Exactly it’s a name I don’t know so so but think about that if if you have a Tony then you’re not gonna you’re not gonna bail on him you’re not gonna rifle and stop paying

Shelly Miller  20:49

right as opposed to someone is USA. Yeah. Who Tony maybe owns

Mike Miller  20:55

right you know, but and you get every time you get a different trainer. Yes on a board. Yeah, they don’t really care. And then they’re like, we’re gonna do an assessment on you. We’ve done this before. Yeah. So we’re gonna measure here. Oh, yeah, there you go. $100 Yeah, no, you’re gonna cancel instantly. Yeah, you are. So you see what I’m saying? I do. So it’s so it’s as much the web is it as the spider it is the spider sets the web. So if the and and works the web. Yeah. You know. So it’s, there’s a couple of key ingredients to it. But if you if you understand the key ingredients, and you have those down, you can shift and and move with the market. Right? The Times. Yes. So then, and that’s why I said COVID so that if challenges arise, you can instantly technologically shift, but those underlying fundamentals are still there, which hold people captive

Shelly Miller  22:00

right well it kind of we could still use the the spider analogy so if something so the spider who’s outside the closet Yeah. Window he if something happened to his web, you know it got knocked down or you know, something happened to the building and he lived he could still go somewhere else and put up shop because he’s done it before I was in a window near alight, I can eat I just need to find that location again. Well the same thing that’s what you’re saying with COVID so you’ve had your messages you’ve been, you know, you you have your ICP identified, you know, and you may want to do something extra for COVID or COVID might have affected your business but that doesn’t mean you don’t have something that doesn’t mean that you can’t change it. Like you just mentioned Tony the trainer did so now Tony, who was just sitting in Mino fitness USA before is now going okay, well I’m going to move right to online because I love fitness. I’m not going to stop doing fitness and this This is how I can do fitness now. Yeah online in zoom on zoom on phone calls, you know, Facebook group to show here’s what I’m doing today, you know all those things

Mike Miller  23:09

exactly. And and Tony loves his clients. He like cares about him, he wants to treat them succeed. He wants the testimonials, he wants referrals, he wants the business he but he loves them, right and he cares for me he takes care of them. And that’s why Tony’s there finding ways to shift finding ways to adapt to the current situation, right? Because there’s this drive this need for him to serve.

Shelly Miller  23:38

Right? That’s how being an entrepreneur is really you know, you just you it well it to me, it is for the ones who stay. So you know, you know people that they don’t seem to they don’t stay in business very long or they go from business to business a business while other people really believe in the love They have for the thing they do, and they want to help people with it so.

Mike Miller  24:04

Exactly, exactly. And that’s really a masterclass on entrepreneurship.

Shelly Miller  24:13

Yeah. And the tale of two spiders. Exactly. Yeah.

Mike Miller  24:15

I love it. That was a great one.

Shelly Miller  24:19

I think so, yeah. We’ll have to let our viewers our listeners tell us. But I think if you keep that in mind with your marketing, you will know there’ll be a halt starter for you to continue and to keep on going, because we’ll all make it through any pandemic, anything. If you have the love of doing what you are doing, and you can help people.

Mike Miller  24:40

Yeah, absolutely. And you can make a lot of money and have a wonderful life and you know, make a great living and achieve all your dreams. True. And like that, go outside your comfort zone.

Shelly Miller  24:53

You got to do that too. Yeah, that’s hard, but you got to do that too.

Mike Miller  24:56


Shelly Miller  24:57

Thanks again for listening to the Mindwhirl Marketing Podcast.

We’ll see you next Thursday.

About Shelly Miller

Entrepreneur, marketer and social psychologist - I help you make the most of your business with marketing, online and offline.

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