Ep 29 – How Do I Find Lists of Leads to Prospect

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LISTEN to the Mindwhirl Marketing Podcast Ep 29 – How Do I Find Lists of Leads to Prospect

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Podcast Transcript

Shelly Miller  00:09

Welcome to the Mindwhirl Marketing podcast with your host, Mike and Shelly Miller, your source for b2b business building information where we talk sales and marketing and give you the insider secrets you need to know to grow your business. We want to help you attract leads and sales and show you how to align sales and marketing. So you get more sales faster with less cost,

Mike Miller  00:28

Less cost and alignments the key.

Shelly Miller  00:31

We say it every week. And it’s the truth.

Mike Miller  00:34

Yep, exactly. You got to get sales and marketing working together so that you get exponentially greater results. Because, you know, sales by itself is awesome. Marketing by itself is awesome. But when they work together,

Shelly Miller  00:51

it’s unstoppable.

Mike Miller  00:53

Yes, it really is the magic happens.

Shelly Miller  00:56

It is.

Mike Miller  00:58

So anyway, I can already hear you editing that I don’t use the word magic. Okay, so this week, we want to talk about how do you find leads, so that you can prospect? Because every business Wow, that’s I got it. All right. Every business needs leads in order to grow, like you have to get leads in. So and then convert those leads so that your business can grow. So leads are like, energy. They’re like food. They’re like the life force

Shelly Miller  01:40

lifeline to your business.

Mike Miller  01:42

Yeah.There you go. Nice. So so you need them. Okay, great. So now you know you need them. Where do you get them from?

Shelly Miller  01:53

And that’s always the burning question.

Mike Miller  01:55

Yes, it is.

Shelly Miller  01:56

How do I get leads?

Mike Miller  01:57

Exactly? How do I get leads? Where do I get leads from? So let’s start at the beginning, which is kind of like an old school method of getting leads. And it’s so old school that the people change their name. So

Shelly Miller  02:15

good point. Yeah, yeah. They’re so old school. They change their name,

Mike Miller  02:18

right? So Originally, it was info USA, right? So in the 80s and 90s. Sales Genie. mm info USA. That was the thing, right? So for $99 a month, you could get unlimited leads, you could just find all the leads you wanted. Yes. And this is what list brokers were doing. Well, to be fair list brokers use info USA, Hoover’s Dun and Bradstreet, and maybe another one or two. They could also use the S RDS, but they rarely do.

Shelly Miller  02:53

They rarely do

Mike Miller  02:54

only the best of the best do.

Shelly Miller  02:55

Yeah, I would say maybe 10% of list brokers use extra or additional means but the 90% use info USA or data axle, the same leads that you’re getting

Mike Miller  03:09

Yes, exactly.

Shelly Miller  03:10

You can target them yourself.

Mike Miller  03:12

Right, exactly. So you don’t like if you understand what an SIC code is and what an NAICS code is, then you could use now data axle used to be info USA or sales Genie. They had a whole bunch of names at one time now they’re just data axle, which is cooler and hipper? Yes. And, and so you know, if you know who you’re targeting, if you know the SIC code, then you can pull a list. And, and that’s great. Except, it’s not so great, because the data quality is poor.

Shelly Miller  03:49

Yes, it’s unfortunate, because, you know, it’s it’s, it’s still viable. But the the data is very, at least 50%, I would say of the data is inaccurate. And a lot of it comes to I think I think everyone who’s ever owned a business has gotten this call where you know, basically, hello, I was calling to confirm your business information. Yeah, you have 10 employees, and you make $12 million a year. And, you know, and any and you’re just sitting there going, What? Who is this? Yeah, hang up. So that’s, that’s me a major mean, that’s them confirming the data that they have and why I believe that at least half of it is no good. So you might be thinking that you are getting a lead. That’s your ideal client, which we need to talk about that.

Mike Miller  04:41

Yeah. You know,

Shelly Miller  04:43

10 employees and they make, let’s say $5 million a year. But that’s really not the lead that you’re looking at. That’s that’s the data that data Axel had.

Mike Miller  04:52

Right? Exactly.

Shelly Miller  04:54

Half of the time. It’s not right. Know what I’m saying?

Mike Miller  04:57

Exactly. And so and when she says half the time So basically, that doesn’t mean that if you get two leads one of them’s bad. It means that if you get 10 leads 1.5 or two are bad, just the business look no longer exists. But what you’ll find is that it’ll say the CEO is Rick Smith. And you’ll call and ask for Rick Smith. And they’ll go, no one works here by that name.

Shelly Miller  05:25

Yes. Or it’ll, they’ll have two employees. Right. And that wasn’t what you identified your ICP as being right now you’re calling somebody who’s not your ICP?

Mike Miller  05:35

Exactly. So you’re calling crummy leads,

Shelly Miller  05:38

but you’re practicing, right? Or you aren’t getting a benefit. But it’s, it’s, it’s more profitable. And, and less time consuming, if you’re if you are calling your ideal client profile.

Mike Miller  05:52

Exactly. Exactly. And remember, you know, when you when you rank your leads, you always have like a, b, and c. c is worse is, is the worst they get. And C stands for crummy. Call for confidence.

Shelly Miller  06:09

There you go. So you do those that you do the C calls first

Mike Miller  06:12

get warmed up, they’re crummy. So call for confidence. That’s if you’re, you know, if you’re reaching into a new market, if you’ve been doing this a while in the same market, then you don’t call c leads.

Shelly Miller  06:24

Right. Right. And and so let’s back up about, ICP Yes, let’s back up and go there first. Because if you’re if you’re wondering how you get leads, we are assuming that you know who your ideal client is,

Mike Miller  06:37

right? So that si si code or the NA, NA ICS code that you use, that would be the code for your ideal client profile, ideal client persona,

Shelly Miller  06:48

right? And then you put in the demographics of you know, what you’ve identified, how many employees they have, what type of business they have, right? How much revenue Yeah, etc. To further nail down to your ICP,

Mike Miller  07:02

right?

Shelly Miller  07:02

Then you look for leads.

Mike Miller  07:04

Exactly, yep. First ICP always, no matter what you do on set in sales or marketing, the first thing you do is identify your ICP.

Shelly Miller  07:15

Yes.

Mike Miller  07:16

I mean, if you don’t know who you’re talking to, you don’t know what to say.

Shelly Miller  07:24

And you don’t know why they would buy your product. Right? Yeah, they might not, they might have no interest in your product.

Mike Miller  07:30

Exactly. So you so you need to know who your ICP is first. And basically, the the most basic place, the easiest place to get leads from the cheapest place is probably info USA. Data, axle, data axle, or Hoover’s are Dun and Bradstreet. Although they’re not cheap, cheap, but there you go. The next level, right? So and what we’re talking about is in the in a Client Magnet System map, these everything we’re talking about is data pools. And we’re, and we’re kind of moving into research as well, the farther we go along, the more we move into research and into marketing, really. So so that’s the context. The next one is data pool is discovered org and zoom info, which is better than data Axel, because their data, it has a little bit of artificial intelligence woven into it. So they find information about your contacts your the people you want to reach out to. Right,

Shelly Miller  08:48

so do you think that they have they just the AI maybe goes through multiple sources so that the data is a little bit better than data axle? Because it goes it has additional criteria to find the leads that you’re looking for?

Mike Miller  09:01

Yes. So data axle, basically, when you become a business, you have to fill out paperwork with the state and register your business. Yeah. So proprietorship, partnership, or corporation. So data axel will take that information. And then, like in a year calls that number first off, it takes it and it sells it. Yeah. Then Then in a year they call it and they go is are they still in business? And is this correct? Right. So what are you doing now? And then every year they should call, but they don’t end up calling every year? I think since we’ve been in business we’ve only gotten like five or six calls.

Shelly Miller  09:47

Yeah, I think so.

Mike Miller  09:48

Yeah. So that’s why the data is kind of wonky.

Shelly Miller  09:54

Okay, good point.

Mike Miller  09:54

Yeah. But for discover.org and zoom info. They will use Other sources for finding businesses, right, so they use the same info that data axle. And Hoover’s and Dun and Bradstreet use, but they also use LinkedIn, let’s say. And they they use AI to look at the website and to

Shelly Miller  10:25

scrape the data.

Mike Miller  10:26

Yeah, scrape data and find out who the officers of the company are and, and estimate the size of the company and if there’s any public filings. So it works really well on the public companies. And it works kind of well on private companies. The smaller they are, the less quality the data. Okay, so if your ICP is fortune 500 Oh, you’re you’re golden. If it is small local service businesses, like local dentists or something, it’s not going to be as accurate,

Shelly Miller  11:05

because there’s not as much information to scrape. Okay,

Mike Miller  11:09

yeah. Yeah. But if it’s a small local marketing companies, there’s all kinds of data just great, because all we do is talk about ourselves. It’s true. Yeah. So. So there you go. Right. So there’s the difference between those two. But now we’re like incorporating AI into it. The next place to get really good leads, is associations that your ICP belongs to. Yes. So if you were selling to electricians, it would be the local IBEW.

Shelly Miller  11:46

ICEW?

Mike Miller  11:47

yes, one of those something. The the something blahblah Electrical Workers, right. So anyway, that would be who you would want to go after? You know, lawyers have LexisNexis. And other associations, the bar? Yes. Right. So you would go to those associations, and you would ask them to buy their list, or buy a list in a certain state or multiple states like Georgia, or the southeast or the United States,

Shelly Miller  12:21

right. And sometimes they won’t let you buy them, but they’ll let you rent them.

Mike Miller  12:25

And that’s true, too.

Shelly Miller  12:26

And sometimes they won’t do either of those, but they’ll let you advertise in their publications,

Mike Miller  12:31

right? Or in their email newsletter or mailed newsletter. Exactly. And then and so we’re moved that’s moving into advertising, which we’ll get into more in a second. But, and they also have trade shows Association sometimes. And there’s other there’s other industry groups. I don’t know what you would call South by Southwest. I don’t know who sponsors South by Southwest, which is a Yeah, print and graphics and design and advertising. You know, but it’s usually sponsored by the, like Adobe, and some other major companies, they sponsor it. Right. Right. And then it’s I don’t know who holds who puts it on, though. But let’s say you went to South by Southwest, and you were a sponsor of it. Well, you could, because you’re a sponsor, you’ll get the list of the attendees.

Mike Miller  13:35

Yes. So these are important reasons to sponsor events. It is and trade shows. So if you sponsor it, you, you get the list of attendees. But you could also be have a booth in that trade show, which is this is what trade shows are for, to generate leads. Right? So if you ever see people standing around in a tradeshow booth, well, if we ever have trade shows again,

Shelly Miller  13:35

Yes.

Shelly Miller  14:03

hopefully we do.

Mike Miller  14:03

Yeah, hopefully we do. But if you ever see people standing around in a tradeshow booth, and they’re not talking to the people walking by, then they’re not very effective. Because the whole purpose of having a tradeshow booth is to get leads.

Shelly Miller  14:18

That’s that’s its whole purpose.Yeah. And, and that talking about data and how the quality of it trade shows and have great quality data. Yeah. And they give it to you in a format that’s usually you know, in a spreadsheet is wonderful for you then to just easily take it and use it.

Mike Miller  14:35

Yeah, exactly. And, and really, when you’re when you’re at the booth and you’re collecting business cards, or however you’re going to do it, you can have the date, you can get the data you want, right? They’re like, how long have you been in business? How many employees do you have? So what are you guys doing for? Whatever it is, right? Right. The

Shelly Miller  14:57

best time to get there there.

Mike Miller  14:59

Yeah, exactly. And they should be in a good mood. If they’re not in a good mood serve alcohol.

Shelly Miller  15:07

at a trade show, that might be a fun trade show there, that would be a way for us to have trade. You know, I

Mike Miller  15:11

know how to do it. It’s, it’s perfect. So basically, you have, you have a wheel that’s going all the time and you spin in and whatever it lands on people when that? Yeah, and then you have models out front, men and women, right? Men and women models pulling the crowd in and serving alcohol. Well, you would have the most popular booth, oh, you would in the place. And then you just to have like, you know, a lot of fun and make and have a lot of noise going on. streamers and balloons. It’s true. The balloons are,

Shelly Miller  15:49

what would your would your I guess? I guess since it’s that trade show, all of your ICP would be they’re not just people who? like alcohol.

Mike Miller  15:56

Right? So right, we’ll still get a bunch of trade show. Yes. I mean, like, if you do CES, then, you know, that’s a, you know, the computer equipment showcase. That’s, it’s broad. It’s very general. So

Shelly Miller  16:14

if you go right to if you go to a trade show that is very pointed towards your ICP then.

Mike Miller  16:21

Right, okay, exactly. But, you know, like, farmers have farmer expos, you know, like, Agra conventions. Yes. And you’re selling to farmers. The farmers are there, you know what I mean? So trade shows are an amazing art amazing source for leads. Now, we’re going to go out of the real world, and we’re going to move more towards data pools as in artifacts, that that artificial intelligence uses. Okay. Right. Yes. And these are called sales engagement tools. So let’s, let’s think about discover.org and zoominfo, how we started adding artificial intelligence into the business listings. Now, let’s just scrape business listings all together, and look at LinkedIn as a data pool, right? So that if there’s a business on LinkedIn, then someone’s saying they’re in business, yes. And you can have sales engagement tools like Apollo, and seamless.ai, and sales loft. And I’ve just given you a range, like from $100, a person to $1,000 a person, basically, of tools to well, sales loft is 1000. But I don’t know if it’s a person anyway. Anyway, basically, the sales engagement tools, they utilize LinkedIn, and they scrape data from LinkedIn. And you input the your ICP, and it provides you a list of them, then you research them. And this is where we’re moving into the research, you research each one of these leads. And if they qualify, then you basically save them to the sales engagement tool. Once you’ve saved it, the sales engagement tool uses AI to go out and get the contact information and everything it can on that person.

Shelly Miller  18:28

And not just on LinkedIn, but everywhere.

Mike Miller  18:30

Right? Yeah, it does. It uses several different sources like like 15 sources, something like that. And it might even use some of the data that’s data axel or you know, back a backdoor way of using that kind of information. Yeah. And but then it corroborates it so it never shows it if, if it’s not verified.

Shelly Miller  18:54

That’s a good point. So I think I know that Apollo, some of these I don’t know that verify.

Mike Miller  19:03

Yes. Do they all Apollo sales, loft? and seamless do?

Shelly Miller  19:08

Okay. And some other tools that do that? Or maybe cheaper? Yeah,

Mike Miller  19:13

yeah. So there’s like scrape and hunter.io. Okay, and those, you could call them sales engagement tools, but really, they’re just email finders. There’s another sales engagement tool that’s very popular called mailshake. But it doesn’t find the emails for you, you have to get another tool.

Shelly Miller  19:32

It’s like so mailshake just finds the contact information,

Mike Miller  19:37

but not mailshake just sends emails. Oh, okay. hunter.io and scrape, they get email. Okay. Right. But the thing with them is, they’re not. Some are verified and some are not verified, but they go this is our best guess, for an email address. Okay, that’s where you run into problems. Because if you’re not sending to verified email addresses, Then you get bounces and bounces are almost as bad as spam complaints. So don’t do it, you know, sent verified addresses. Because, you know, we get into can spam law and all that stuff but and I don’t even want to go into GDPR right which is yet another five yes basically don’t sell to Europe if you don’t have to if you do sell to Europe, then you’re gonna have to

Shelly Miller  20:29

be compliant,

Mike Miller  20:30

you’re gonna have to be compliant. But the laws are really geared toward b2c, not b2b. So they expect businesses to to send sales

Shelly Miller  20:46

emails to another business. Yeah.

Mike Miller  20:50

So, but the sales engagement tools are really helpful, because they’re actually they’re not only helping you find these leads, they are helping you prospect these leads. Yes. And they’re making it easy as possible. And they’re taking the idea that we came up well, we didn’t come up with it, really sales loft, kind of started the whole cadence idea. As far as I know. I mean, I mean, other salespeople had it in the back of their mind that you got to reach out to people eight times, you got to continue to follow up. But sales loft was the first company who actually said, Okay, we’re gonna build a tool that follows up. And so you can follow up automatically if you just send emails,

Shelly Miller  21:36

right, or you can, if you have a system set up, that tells you what to do next with the lead. Because, you know, you go through this whole list and you’ve looked for leads. So you, you don’t want to waste the lead by contacting them once. Because as you just said in a previous video, it’s it’s eight to 12 contacts, right? So if you have a cadence setup and a process, then you’ll know what you need to do next. Okay, I sent or I called today, Tuesday, so something else needs to go out tomorrow, or you know, whatever your cadence ends up being.

Mike Miller  22:10

Right, right. Exactly.

Mike Miller  22:11

Exactly. And the only problem with the cadence is, don’t put too much in the top of it, because you’ve got to continually do it day after day after day. So anyway, that’s off the topic, but, but basically, sales engagement tools are a really good place to find leads. Moving on into now. So now we’ve shifted through research. And let me say about the sales engagement tools, you need to the research is important because you got to personalize your outreach. Yes, you do. You have to right. So like you’re going to get better results from personalizing than you are from just generic messages. So now we move across into advertising. And thinking about the industry influencers, right? So this could be the associations, like Shelly was talking about before, it could be associations, but it could also be like just people who follow the industry consultants, like I know that McKinsey and Forrester, you know, they have industry experts, channel experts that do a lot of research in an industry and they’ll have like a podcast or, and videos that they do on on the industry. And you can reach out to them to basically ask them for you know, to purchase leads from them. Or right, so you can purchase leads from them. But you can also let me put it this way. Gary Halbert was an amazing person, a marketing genius. And he came up with this idea that he would go to industry publications, well, he would go the SRDS, and he would find a list like let’s say, of single housewives, and then he would single housewives or whoever, right? So single women between the ages of 35 and 55, who bought let’s say shoes recently. So he would he would get that list and then he would write a sales letter that would sell them something that was like $3. And it would be an irresistible offer. He would make whatever ICP he chose. He would create something that was like an irresistible offer. It was a no brainer, you would buy it. The thing about that is what he would do is he would take that the list that he could only rent and he would send those letters to that list. And by doing so he would gather leads. leads, right with his irresistible offers.

Shelly Miller  25:04

But he would also put ads in publications.

Mike Miller  25:07

Yes. Well, and

Shelly Miller  25:08

that he had identified was his ICP was it was one of their targets, right? He would put an ad in there with an irresistible offer and half the time it is free, just send me a note that you want it

Mike Miller  25:20

sorted dress stamped. And where to send it. Yeah, or $3. You know, that’s, that’s the kind of thing he would do.

Shelly Miller  25:27

And he’d get 1000s of leads. Exactly. So it’s a it’s a great way to get leads as well.

Mike Miller  25:31

Yeah. So you can generate leads. So think about that. So that was his whole strategy. But now we’ve we’ve gone into influencers, and we’ve gone into advertising. So we have taken and this is where lead magnets come from? It is you know, so basically, what we’ve done is we, we could go to an influencers magazine, and we could put place an ad, and the ad is an irresistible offer to get a free guide. And they go to your website where they download the free guide in exchange for their contact information. That’s why it’s called a lead magnet.

Shelly Miller  26:07

Yes, you can use a lead magnet for a lot more things than lots of people just think I can put this on the web. Yeah, and use it for hundreds of years, you just have to think outside the box. And if you’re gonna go to all the work to create a lead magnet, why not promote it in every every way, shape or form?

Mike Miller  26:25

Exactly, exactly. You can advertise it and promote it in many different places. Like on facebook, facebook, you have an ad and you drive people to your website to a middle of funnel or bottom of funnel offer. And when they sign up, they have your I mean, you have their contact information, right? And now their lead. Yep. And now you can continually reach out to them.

Shelly Miller  26:54

Right? So many ways to get leads many ways.

Mike Miller  26:58

Exactly. And it goes from you can buy them all the way to you can advertise and get them. Yes. And the advertising route gets more responsive leads. It does the info USA or the data axle that gets less responsive. And and they’re cheaper to get. But they’re also a lot less quality. And at the end of the day after you spend the time of going through all of them and sifting through through them to find the ones who are interested in what you have to offer. Is it really cheaper than just advertising? Good point. So that’s where we’re going to leave you for today. All right, hopefully you enjoyed it. And as always, we’ll see you next Thursday.

Shelly Miller

Shelly Miller

Entrepreneur, marketer and social psychologist - I help you make the most of your business with marketing, online and offline.

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