Ep 11 – Getting Your Sales Message To Flow

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Podcast Transcript

Mike Miller 

Building the sounds of the Mindwhirl sessions. It’s the Mindwhirl marketing podcast with your hosts, Mike and Shelly Miller are here today to talk to you about all the copywriting. Well, not all the copywriting information you need to know but definitely. business building and money making making information. Whoo. Yeah. And so, strap in, because we’re gonna be dishing out some dirt. I don’t know, I’m just

Shelly Miller 

keep going, boom, boom, shake the room with this marketing goodness. Oh, yeah.

Mike Miller 

All right, let’s go make it happen. Make it rain. Okay, so today, we have a really cool topic because like, in our last podcast, we discussed copywriting and how to learn copywriting in an unconscious way. Right? Yes. But how to get really good at copywriting? And wouldn’t you wouldn’t know that that was how you would do it. Right. You know, like, yes,

Shelly Miller 

it wouldn’t be your natural thought that this is the thing that’s gonna make you get better at copywriting.

Mike Miller 

Yes, exactly. So, um, listen to that podcast. So you’ll learn what that secret is

Shelly Miller 

what that thing is, I

Mike Miller 

wish I had that sparkle on. Oh, we do. Anyway. Yeah. So, um, I mentioned that, you know, there when you have a message that’s disjointed. Right, so what does a good message do? How does a good message sell you?

Shelly Miller 

It takes you through a flow that leads you to a logical through a logical progression to an action to take?

Mike Miller 

Yes, I love it. So it grabs your attention. It sucks you in and it carries you straight to the offer. Yes. Where you get to make a decision on purchase or not purchase. Right. But if the letters good, and you’ve read that far, the odds of you taking action are high.

Shelly Miller 

Right? Because it’s something that you wanted? Yes. It was easy to read and understand. It told you that it would solve your problem. It had the solution. And the solution is this. So that’s how we do the flow. It brings you down a flow like a funnel down into the solution. Yeah, it drops you right there to the obvious choice.

Mike Miller 

Exactly. Exactly. So and I want you to think about two things. Right. So the first is kind of jakey and you’ll be like what, but comic books, write comic books. So and the second one is, directors. Okay, movie, okay. You know, movies, movie directors and comic books. Okay. Comic Book, authors, writers drawers, whatever. I don’t know who’s responsible in the comic books. All I know is that when I used to read them, it would be like, Where am I? Because so I’m following the character and they do this thing. And then what is this? That happens? Where am I? All of a sudden, somewhere else? I don’t understand. Right?

Shelly Miller 

Yes, the bad ones did that. That’s what the bad ones do.

Mike Miller 

The good ones. You’re right there with a character you see everything that’s happening. And the whole thing’s over before you know it.

Shelly Miller 

There’s a logical progression. Yeah, through the story.

Mike Miller 

Exactly. So now think about Hollywood movies, and how important the director and the editor is. Yes, when they put all of the sequences together all of the little shots that make a movie, right? Have you ever been in a movie and all of a sudden, you’re like, how did we get here?

Shelly Miller 

Yes.

Mike Miller 

What’s going on? I don’t understand what’s happening. And

Shelly Miller 

that’s known as a bad movie.

Mike Miller 

Yeah, exactly. All the but some of those bad movies are super expensive, you know, like, hundred million dollar what they call blockbusters. And then in the first five minutes, you’re like, what’s going on? Yes. Not even sure anymore? You know? Yeah. So that’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about logical flows. Yes. So here’s examples of emails that I got recently. And I want in you know, I want you to think about this. Now I’m going to disguise who’s who these are from because I respect these people. It’s just that they didn’t do 100% there’s this isn’t a Hondo P. effort on their, on their part. Yes. And so here’s, here’s an example. Right? So this guy is a genius. But he says I consulted with the blank blank blank in let’s say Denver for two years or so helping them with strategy and providing their 50,000 member members with more value. Okay. They also asked that I keynote their annual conference, we were lodged at the Hyatt and the president of the board and I had the same corner suite, one floor apart. He called a meeting of his top people to review the opening day. When I arrived at his suite, there was something amiss, I finally figured it out. He had the same suite and the same furniture that I had, but the furniture was numinously in different locations. I said to him, did you move the furniture in here? Yes, he said the lighting was all wrong, the wrong the room had insufficient breathing space, and it wasn’t designed well. But that furniture was bolted down. I said. What’s your point? He calmly asked. Okay, so break from the thing. So far, so good. Okay, that’s weird, right? So you’ve hooked me, the guy you know, rented rooms in a hotel, but this guy’s like this furniture has to be all changed around Yeah. How dare that you know what the fung shui is not correct that whatever. Exactly. Fung Shui. Exactly. So the very next paragraph says, there are jobs, careers and callings, our callings involve our passions and very little can stop us from applying those passions. I have a hard time reviewing someone’s written work and not realizing that the syntax is off, or the tenses don’t match. Or the examples are boring. A job merely employs us, a career occupies us. But a passion should embrace us. So my question is, Mm huh? We were in the hotel room.

Shelly Miller 

Right?

Mike Miller 

Right. Yeah, talking about furniture that this guy moved all around.

Shelly Miller 

And I don’t even remember the first paragraph now. Because those two, the last paragraph? Yeah, it was great text. But I don’t know how that went to the guy. Exactly. I don’t need it because I’m also still left going. Hotel furniture is bolted to the ground in a suite. Okay, and then and then that’s made me completely forget what the first paragraph was. I don’t I don’t even remember what you read the first paragraph to be

Mike Miller 

yes. Because here’s why I consulted with these people. Helping them.

Shelly Miller 

Okay. But I’m telling you that because there wasn’t a flow. Yeah, that’s why I don’t remember. Yeah, think about a story. When you’re reading a story. Somebody told you a story. Like if it was started off by? Well, any part of those could be a story. They just didn’t flow together. They were statements and I’m I’m left lost.

Mike Miller 

Yes, exactly. And I don’t know how you could not be lost with that. Because they don’t seem to go together. I mean, the they’re, like I said, this guy’s brilliant. He’s really top of his game.

Shelly Miller 

Yeah, we read his letters for years. They’re not usually like this. No,

Mike Miller 

this is that these are two statements. Yes, they are different, you know, once a story and once a statement one’s opinion, but the opinion doesn’t go. Like there’s no moral to the story first, and the moral doesn’t match the next paragraph. You’ve dropped me you’ve lost me. I have no idea where we are. Exactly. See what I’m saying. So that’s not how you want to write.

Shelly Miller 

It’s not well, you won’t, your sales letters will not

Mike Miller 

sell they won’t know. Exactly. So and that’s the thing is that a lot of people are like, Well, I’m not using big enough words, or I’m not saying it correctly, or bla bla bla bla bla. Man just tell people what you have. Do it with colloquialisms. You know, don’t use puns, and don’t run on puns, but but tell them what you have to offer and lead them through a logical progression, like you said, right? Basically, there’s an old sales saying that says, what you do is you tell them what you’re going to tell them. You tell them, and then you tell them what you told them? Yes. Right. Well, I’m not saying that that’s the order. But doesn’t that make sense? Doesn’t it make sense that I’m going to tell you what I’m going to tell you that I’m going to tell you that I’m going to tell you what I told you. At the end of that you understand

Shelly Miller 

you do. It’s it’s in sometimes, for me anyway, it’s hard to get out of my head. When I’m trying to go through a logical progression at times. You know, to go to have I really went through every point to get Get them to the action I want them to take. So an exercise I do is I try to think about it like this. If I were telling you, and if you don’t know, Mike’s my spouse, so telling him a story about Okay, so on Thursday, we’re going to pack up the car, and we’re leaving, and this is how we’re gonna do it. That’s how you want to write.

Mike Miller 

Yes,

Shelly Miller 

for some reason, a lot of people have this filter that they put in place where they think that they need to use, they need to speak in a voice that is obviously not theirs, right? Well, that will screw with I’m sorry, but that’s just what it is that will screw with your logical progression, and it will it will come out as statements made. Yeah, it will come out as it doesn’t make sense. It’s not congruent. It doesn’t bring you to any action. It’s just it. And that’s why because You’re overthinking what you’re trying to tell your target. You just need to tell them what you want and what you have and how to get it.

Mike Miller 

Yeah, that’s it. Exactly. Maybe overcome some objections in the middle there.

Shelly Miller 

Right. You know, oh, I think you should that makes that makes the letter better.

Mike Miller 

Yes, exactly. It just makes it better. But at the very least, do just tell them what you’re gonna tell them. Just tell them what you have to offer. And give them a way to take action. Yes. You know, that’s it. That’s it, but it has to flow. Here’s what I have. Here’s how you take advantage. Mm hmm. Not. So there’s here’s a story. And it was really weird. And I found that something completely different that didn’t have anything to do with or you’re just telling

Shelly Miller 

that I moved all of my furniture in my penthouse. Yeah. And, you know, hotel, and I

Mike Miller 

mean, you know, like exactly what now. Exactly. Yeah. So here’s the second one. Okay. Now, this one’s a little longer. Not much, but subject line. What if you had your own marketing department? Okay, so first off, who are they speaking to?

Shelly Miller 

A company who or a person who maybe a startup? Oh, well, there they are. familiar with having a marketing department?

Mike Miller 

Yeah. Not a marketing person or a contractor marketing department. It says exactly. So someone who understands that they need a marketing department? Yes. Okay.

Shelly Miller 

So that makes me think a company, right? An entrepreneur who has a staff?

Mike Miller 

Yes. Sounds Sounds good to me. So let’s see if that bears true. Okay. Hi, friends. Question. If you were to hire a marketing team for two months, what what would you expect to pay? Okay, so Marketing Team $10,000 $20,000. I’d like to tell you how you can get your own collaborative team of marketers for a lot less than that. Okay, so, in the last one, I talked about loops and opening loops, and then you have to close loop. Yes. Okay. So that’s a loop that’s open. But first, take a moment to consider how some effective marketing could change things for you. Imagine a platform of hundreds if not thousands of email subscribers. Okay, getting solid traffic whenever you hit Publish. Okay. I’m being narrowed down here. And like, in order for these statements to be true, I have to be somebody, but it seems different than who I was told. enhancing your book proposal with a powerful launch plan. Having an audience that is regularly giving you great feedback, landing book deal after book deal.

Shelly Miller 

Okay, so right there. I don’t there’s a congruency problem. Yeah. Because I, there’s not a lot of people who would hire a marketing team, right, who are in the midst of a book deal. Now there are a few, because you know, you’re writing a book, we have a company and we have, you know, employees.

Mike Miller 

Yeah.

Shelly Miller 

But the letter seems targeted towards a person who would go out would need a marketing team. Yeah. Who was looking for a book deal. So I’m already getting lost.

Mike Miller 

Well, and I know authors, like we don’t do I don’t have I don’t have marketing teams. Right. So who needs a marketing team? Right? Yes. So yeah, so I’m lost. Right? We started with, what if you had your own marketing department, and now we’re like, so you can land book deal after book deal, right. Okay. So we’re in a second loop here. to some of you all this sounds too good to be true. But I’ve seen it happen for hundreds of writers over the course of my career. The difference between writers who have an audience and those who don’t, one thing, a willingness to be coachable.

Shelly Miller 

Okay, confusion.

Mike Miller 

Yeah. Because you’re There’s one thing that basically equates to success. And that is your ability to be coachable.

Shelly Miller 

Well, you’re saying, but even greater than that you’re saying that a marketing team is your solution. But now you’re telling me that the way that I can get that solution is, is to be coachable? Yeah. That makes no sense.

Mike Miller 

I don’t think so either. I don’t think so either. If you’ve got that, I promise you can do this. This week, I told you last week I told you about the masterclass. It’s a series of five live virtual workshops for writers where our sole focus will be helping you grow your audience.

Shelly Miller 

So again, a problem

Mike Miller 

for writers for writers growing your audience. So that’s not a marketing team. Now, it’ll be me, you and a small group of writers who are all headed in the same direction. Earlier today, I hosted a conversation with some of the writers who’ve already signed up and they’re super excited to get started, you’re gonna love meeting them. If you show up and follow my guidance, you’ll double your audience or your model or your money back. It’s that simple. But you need to act soon. We start things off tomorrow. Well, first off already is you’ll double your audience or your money back. What is that? How do you judge that? So I’m starting with zero. I get one. I’m not sure. I’m not sure how you don’t you know, how you double your audience?

Well, this is a

Mike Miller 

well, not only that, are you done with the letter? No. So I’m going to lead you through some powerful methods to attract your ideal readers. This isn’t theory, I’ve seen these strategies work over and over again, and the cost, brace yourself, this might blow your hair back. It’s a whopping $37. To get started, click here to learn more and get registered. Our first class is tomorrow. See you there?

Shelly Miller 

Yes, well, there’s so many problems with this letter. Yeah. And again, I’m going to point I’m going to just say because I am a human, and humans listening to this, yeah, I know, have read letters like this. And here’s what you know. You may not know exactly what’s wrong with the letter. But what you know is, something’s not right. Yeah, it’s not congruent. It’s not making sense. It doesn’t there’s no flow. They it sounded as though they were speaking to you, but ended as though they weren’t. Right, the price. So we’re going from 10 to $20,000. a month for a marketing team to $37.

Mike Miller 

Yeah.

Shelly Miller 

Hey, you know, that’s Wait, that makes no sense is a marketing team that sounded that, you know, think about the people who would use a marketing team. And like you said, you know, one of my pet projects is I do promotion and marketing for authors.

Mike Miller 

Yes.

Shelly Miller 

None of them have ever had any language about a marketing team. That’s not how it goes down. No, they have a platform that helps them get an audience and they need to do social, you know, that whole thing but this letter, it’s, it’s, it seems to be for two or three kinds of people. And the solution doesn’t match the sales pitch at the beginning, which wouldn’t it be neat to have a marketing team or a marketing department?

Mike Miller 

Yes.

Shelly Miller 

An author isn’t thinking. I’m looking for a marketing department. That’s not what an author thinks.

Mike Miller 

No, no, they would think about growing their platform. Right. So how could I do that? Right? And how can I find so they’re saying ideal readers? Basically, you’re gonna build a platform using social channels, speaking engagements, or selling through selling your book? Right, right, advertising your book, doing podcasts, doing videos that you can put on YouTube? You know, there’s there’s many ways of doing it. But I don’t know what the marketing department part of it is because no author could afford a marketing department. And they can’t do everything themselves.

Shelly Miller 

Right, this this also there, there could be another reason for that letter. And I’ve seen it across our years in marketing. Yeah. They’ve copied Yes. What else they got, they got a letter that they thought was good. Yeah. And thought that what they could do is fit it in to what they’re doing. Yeah. And that that fit

Shelly Miller 

doesn’t match. This is someone else’s letter. This

Shelly Miller 

is someone else’s letter that they tried to make their letter. So again, that points to why it’s in congruent. It does not make sense so, so quickly, you know, Michael and I are social psychologists. We love To understand people’s brains, and it’s it’s a fun, interesting thing, but it can also be used as a weapon because you start to it’s, things become very clear. When you read something like this, you know, you you all of a sudden go Okay, there’s there’s a couple of reasons why this is not right. Yes. So it’s easier for you to pick out what the problems what’s going on. So actually, this is the first time I heard all of it. That’s what I think it is. I think they I think they go they had a, they read a letter, I thought it was great and thought I’m gonna make this for me. And they didn’t do a good job of it.

Mike Miller 

Yeah, no. Which, and that’s the thing is that there’s some good information, you know, there’s some good language in there, about you know, we’re doing this and People like  it and check it out.

Shelly Miller 

Right. And the product is probably good. I don’t know, I don’t  I actually, I don’t even know who the person is, who wrote this. But you know, obviously, it’s a class they’re respected for authors. That’s $37. And if you’re coachable, you’re and he, obviously he’s gonna try to coach you, then sign up for the class that starts tomorrow. Right? It might be beneficial,

Mike Miller 

right. But but so you would want to hit people with their biggest takeaway, their biggest benefit their right business right? Right. So what are they going to get from this? I don’t know that a marketing department?

Shelly Miller 

Well, that letter won’t sell anything? No, because if they sent to a list of authors, that first of all, the subject line will immediately go with, they won’t even open it. It’ll just be like, you know, junk, spam or over into the promotions that I keep it there.

Mike Miller 

Right, you know, exactly. Yes, exactly. And so that’s good information for you. First off, like Shelly just said, if you’re using someone else’s copy,

Shelly Miller 

you copied somebody Yeah, modeled them, you’ve just copied somebody

copied it, and yet put your words into their word. Yeah. You know, wherever you think is

Shelly Miller 

proper, you know, the right place. Yeah,

Mike Miller 

yeah. It’s not gonna work out if it doesn’t flow. Right. So remember that it’s a feeling that you get when you’re reading good copy. Mm hmm. It’s it’s like,

Shelly Miller 

and that feeling is that they’re speaking to you. Yes. That note clearly

Mike Miller 

isn’t speaking to an author. And like a movie, it just flows from one scene to the next, and you know exactly where you are. And you know what they’re saying. And it’s intriguing, you know, they may have titillated you, at first to get you in to make you start reading. But now that you’re reading, you see where it’s going, and then your mind starts working on how it can help you and all the things that could do for you. And, and you know, the person’s telling their story of struggle, but how they overcame, right, and you’re like, you know, I’m not that bad. And I could do that to see what I mean. And then it and then they’re like, so all you have to do is send us $19.95, and you’re going to get this and this and this and this, and you’re like, Wow, I can’t not do it. Right. Because it, it brings you through a logical progression, like you said, I love it. A logical progression that brings you to a culmination, and nothing’s left out, right? Everything that everything isn’t included in this message, but nothing is left out.

Shelly Miller 

Right. And that’s, you know, also a trick of a good copywriter. So it’s thought out, you don’t have to include everything, you have to include the pert The, the points that your ICP, feels, understands, and, and identifies with, yes, not all of them, you could do all of them, it depends on the length of your sales letter and what you’re trying to sell. But if you touch on some areas that, you know, your ICP is having problems with, like, I know that authors do need help with promotion, I also know that they don’t spend a lot of money on it, because the margins of making money from a book are small. So there’s no marketing department. So again, you know, you you have to, you have to bring them through a flow, a logical progression, that that leads them to something that they don’t have to think about. And you do that with your words and your words are reviewing and going through the points that they’re having a problem with and how it’s going to solve it and what they need to do to solve it.

Mike Miller 

Absolutely, absolutely. And that’s what we do. Your message is so important that you have to keep that your message is what separates you from your competition. It’s what helps your ideal client profile ICP persona or ideal client persona, know that they’re in the right place and that you can help them and that they’re going to get the benefit that they’re that they’ve been searching for. Yes, right. And you you we’ve you know, it’s always thought it was funny that witches cast spells. Yes, spells like spelling like it’s written. Yeah, you know what I mean? That that’s what you’re doing. You’re writing words that in enchant your ideal client, persona, ideal client profile. And if you need help with that, that’s what we do for a living. So we do. Yeah, so check us out at mindwhirl.com. And, you know, if you need to speak to your ideal client, and get them to say yes, to your offers, that’s what we do. And we can help you with that.

Shelly Miller 

We do. Yeah, we can also review your messages as well. Hone them make them better. Yes. You know, just have a quick look at them. See if they’re really pointed towards your target. Exactly,

Mike Miller 

absolutely. But if you decide to do it yourself, don’t make statements. Don’t be disjointed. Don’t open loops and don’t close them. You know,

Shelly Miller 

yeah. So listen to the last podcast and to this podcast.

Mike Miller 

Absolutely.

Shelly Miller 

That’ll help you with writing better.

Mike Miller 

It will. So with that,

Shelly Miller 

We’ll see you next Thursday. Thanks again, for listening to the Mindwhirl Marketing Podcast.

About Shelly Miller

Entrepreneur, marketer and social psychologist - I help you make the most of your business with marketing, online and offline.

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