Ep 10 – Doing This One Thing Will Make Your Sales Copy Captivating

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Articles and Companies Discussed in the Podcast

Lauretta Hannon – The Cracker Queen
Facebook: @lauretta.hannon
Website: http://thecrackerqueen.com/downHomeWritingSchool.html

Martin Messier
Website: https://dailynlp.com/

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Podcast Transcript

Mike Miller 

Alright welcome to the Mindwhirl Marketing podcast with your host Mike and Shelly Miller is here to discuss all of the business, B2B business marketing, techniques, tactics, strategies, you need to be successful. grow your business to get more leads, make more sales, grow your revenues and your profits, which is a good thing, don’t you think? I do. It’s always fun to make money. And that’s what this podcast is all about. Yeah, making money. Love it.

Shelly Miller 

Love it.

Mike Miller 

All right. So today we have a really interesting topic. I guess you would call this topic how to get really good at copywriting.

Shelly Miller 

That’s, I that’s a great topic. And we should say, this is not sponsored or paid for by anyone we are. What we’re about to tell you is is purely our opinion. Yes. from having experienced a course.

Mike Miller 

Exactly. Exactly. So it’s, it’s all about what we believe, because of what we experienced. You know what we went through? Yes. Our experiences. There you go. That’s, that’s the word. Okay, so I’m gonna start in a weird place.

Shelly Miller 

Okay.

Mike Miller 

Okay. So you have a friend named Lauretta Hannah. Yes. And she is an author. She is and she is like a southern humorist. But she has an interesting slant on it. Right. So she can take, like, stories that have maybe a sad slant, or maybe a kind of a weird slant. And she can frame them in humor.

Shelly Miller 

Yes, she can. Right? Yes. She’s she is exceptional at that.

Mike Miller 

Exactly. And she’s won awards and all kinds of stuff. So the thing is, is that, you know, if we go back in time, and we look at Southern humor, Southern humorists, there’s Lewis Grizzard, right. And then Jeff Foxworthy came in and you know, went like full on comedian. But in a southern way. Yeah. If you are cutting your grass, and you found a car, you might be a redneck. Yes. Right. Yes. Southern humor.

Shelly Miller 

My favorite one.

Mike Miller 

Yeah. So um, if you took Lewis Grizzard and Jeff Foxworthy and John Steinbeck and you kind of mash them all together? It would be Lauretta Hannon.

Shelly Miller 

It would be

Mike Miller 

Yeah, you know, so like, stories that you can’t stop reading. Mm hmm. That have like this. Interesting take. But there’s humor. Right. It’s really interesting.

Shelly Miller 

Yeah. So it’s kind of like real life tragic tragedies, you know, just things that happen to you. Growing up, I mean, everyone’s had something. And she, in her sharing that gives you the ability to ability to identify that within yourself. Because there ever all of us have had those times in our life. Yeah, that we haven’t that have been maybe torturous or horrifying or, you know, depends. And she found a way to make them joyful. Joyful is her her word. That’s how she put it. And that’s exactly how she writes.

Mike Miller 

Yeah. It’s amazing. It is because and that’s that the thing about is what you just said, and this is where it applies to copywriting, right? You draw people in because they feel like you’re telling them about their life, right? things that they’ve experienced things they’ve gone through.

Shelly Miller 

And it makes you feel like you’ve gone through it too. You know, you’d be you identify with them. You understand them, you want to be their friend. Oh, they had a hard life too. Or this happened to them as well. I’m not the only one,

Mike Miller 

right? Yes. There’s exactly some kind of simpatico. Definitely. So I’m, what’s this? So there’s one lesson that she’s told you many things about writing. But what’s the one most powerful lesson she ever taught you?

Shelly Miller 

Yes. So just back up for a second. So Lauretta also gives writing workshops to authors to better their writing skills. And she provides tips on her Facebook group page as well. And the number one tip that she has put out for the whole time I’ve known her for almost 20 years is to copy the greats. So go to a classical book, your favorite one, open it up, get yourself a piece of paper and a pen and copy the text. Yeah. And that will make you better writer, you’re copying the works of the greats.

Mike Miller 

Okay, so then you go, how exactly? How could? How could that do that? Yes, you do. Yeah, it doesn’t make sense. So, here’s the rest of the story. Yeah, Harvey used to say, right. So I like NLP. I’m a fan of NLP because it’s all about it’s the science of success. And it teaches you how to control your thoughts, feelings and emotions. And and it gives you a picture of reality it does. So you can tell the difference between what’s a hallucination and what’s reality. Mm hmm. That’s, that’s basically in a nutshell what it does. So there’s a skill that you learn in NLP called modeling. And really NLP was developed by modeling.

Shelly Miller 

Yes.

Mike Miller 

And so that means someone has a skill, and they’re really good at something, and you want to learn that skill, so that you can have more resources within you. Right? So you can be a better person, you can reach success faster, you can have more resources. So you model someone who has the skill. So and then figure out what it is that they have and how they do it, so that you can incorporate it into your life beliefs, thoughts, feelings,

Shelly Miller 

right? Say you viewer, so you can get that skill.

Mike Miller 

Exactly. Right. So, um, there’s this guy named Martin Messier. And he runs daily NLP calm. And Martin had a modeling class. And he was, you know, saying, basically, we’re going to teach you how to model, which is really important, you know, as I’ve said, is extremely important how to model to know how to model and there’s two phases of it, there’s unconscious, and there’s conscious learning. Right? And if you think about how we learned language, at first, we were just like, repeating the sounds, you know, my mom, right? And, and we like, meaning came separate, you know, second, it was the sounds and the words, right? They came first. That’s why you don’t say cuss words in front. I’m stealing this part from Martin. This is why you don’t say cuss words in front of children. Because they’ll repeat it. They won’t know what it is. But they’ll say it in church. Right? You know? Yes. So, so you don’t want to say that. So that’s how learning takes place? Well, Martin has this class called, it’s his modeling workshop. Well, in the modeling workshop, he uses what he calls an essential skill. And I believe it’s an essential skill as well. And that is copywriting. Yes. Right. So he used Gary Halbert as the person to model. Yes. And I don’t want to give it all away. But the thing is, is that Martin said that, here’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to do what Lauretta said to do, you’re gonna write a sales letter every day. Right? So this was a nine or 12 week course. And so first off 12 weeks, Martin invested a lot into this. He did. And nine weeks, you’re writing sales letters? Yes. Right. So basically, every day, you’re writing another sales letter by Gary Halbert. And you think when you start, you’re like, I don’t know about this, how’s this gonna work? You know, what am I actually learning from all of this? Right. But here’s the thing. Shelly and I are, we’ve been writing copy, you know, direct response copywriting for 20 years. So we know a little bit about it.

Shelly Miller 

We do.

Mike Miller 

We’ve been around the block a couple times, you know, and we only write sales letters. So it’s a it’s, we didn’t have a chance to use the, what Loretta said, because we weren’t going to write a classical book, a nonfiction book or even a fiction, I mean, a fiction book, or even a nonfiction book that has like a bio or an autobiography.

Shelly Miller 

Right.

Mike Miller 

Right. So so we never took that advice. And now I’m realizing that it’s essential advice. Like if you want to get good at writing. She’s right. You have to write the masters.

Shelly Miller 

She’s 100%. Right?

Mike Miller 

Yeah, you do.

Shelly Miller 

Yeah, you do you do that, that will ensure you become a better writer, period.

Mike Miller 

Yeah,

Shelly Miller 

that’s End of story. That’s, that’s the number one thing you need to do.

Mike Miller 

And I agree, I agree. And it’s not like, um, and the reason why it works and everything, you won’t understand why it works. I don’t understand why it works. I don’t need to do it, because that’s how, you know, we learn to walk. That’s how we learn language. That’s how we learn everything. It’s all unconscious at first

Shelly Miller 

it is it is, and trusting in the advice of somebody who’s done it. And who has gotten better at it. You know, I we were both willing to I mean, I was fortunate enough to be able to use the class with you, because you were taking it. It’s what he said to do. Martin said, this is the letter for today. write this letter. Mm hmm. And we just did. Yeah, just did it. We paid for the class. We wanted to get the best we could from the class.

Mike Miller 

Yes. Exactly. His instructions. Right. And so when you think about when I think about so I’m not this guy who loves that I make $30,000 a sales letter and then charge 5% Commission on every sale you make. Because the people who say that don’t write sales letters, you know, no one’s paying. I look, I can charge whatever I want. Right. But But, you know, I charge a million dollars to do sales copy. No, no one’s paying you. So you’re not making a million dollars. Right. Good point. Right. So it’s not what you charge. It’s what someone pays you for that. Right. Your your skill. Very good. That’s your experience. So but we’re not $30,000 copywriters, you know, like Gary Halbert was, but we’re good. I believe that we’re really good. We’ve been doing this 20 years, we had to have learned something.

Shelly Miller 

Right? Oh, we definitely have.

Mike Miller 

Yeah.

Shelly Miller 

So and we have letters that we’ve used to sell, you know, so our clients and ourselves, so we know that we are above average?

Mike Miller 

Yeah, exactly. If we wanted to, if we wanted to pull it out and be braggadocious we’ve sold millions and millions of dollars with copy that we’ve written. Yes. For us and our clients. Right. So So there you go. But I decided I wanted to learn modeling, because it’s such a great skill to learn to know so that you could apply it to any other skill you need. Right? So. So we learned modeling, and Martin wanted us to learn copywriting start with copywriting model, a great model, a great, maybe the greatest

Shelly Miller 

sales copywriter. Yes. So that you learned how to model and to write copy?

Mike Miller 

Yes, exactly. So we modeled Gary Halbert wrote one of Gary Halbert sales letters every day.

Shelly Miller 

Yes.

Mike Miller 

So just at the end of the unconscious absorption phase. I wrote a sales letter for our business. That sales letter is possibly the greatest sales letter I have ever read. or written. Because it’s, it flows. It does. Like you said, Great copy has a funnel effect. It does. It sucks you in at the top. Uh huh. And it drives you it like leaves. Oh, yes. Yeah. leads you? Yes. To the bottom where there’s no other option than to

Shelly Miller 

do the thang

Mike Miller 

Exactly. Which is purchase or sign up or whatever. Yeah, like that. Do the thing. Yes. Right. Whatever the offer is, you’re going to take advantage of the offer.

Shelly Miller 

Right. And that’s my gauge for good copy. Yeah, I I tend to be doing a couple things at once. So when I read copy, that I’ve read it, understood all of it. And it’s brought me to a conclusion. It’s led me right there and I know exactly what to do. That’s called excellent coffee. And unfortunately, that’s rare.

Mike Miller 

Yeah, it is. It really is. And we have evidence to prove it, you know, we’ll do we do, actually. But the thing and that’s the thing about Gary, is that everything he wrote and and the weird thing is, is that if you if you know the term or know the name Gary Halbert, you think oh hi be overdramatic, you know, really salesy copy. I didn’t

Shelly Miller 

I just thought of Tova.

Mike Miller 

Yes. Tova Borgnine Tova Borgnine swears under oath that her new perfume does not contain sexual stimulants or sexual pheromones. Very good drive your man wild. That’s what I remember. Because Wow. Right, exactly. Okay, Toby. Yeah, but See, the thing is, is that’s not really hypee. It’s just,

Shelly Miller 

it just, it captures your attention. immediately.

Mike Miller 

Yes, exactly. It does get your attention and you’re like, whoa. What is this? So you keep reading. And you, um, the next thing you know, you’re at the end, and he’s telling you how to order. Yeah, exactly.

Shelly Miller 

Exactly. And then there’s this lead you through a logical progression. Yes. to a conclusion that you can take action on.

Mike Miller 

Yeah, that’s, that’s that’s it. Yeah, exactly. And you have the option, kind of to take action or not. But if you’ve read the whole letter, you’re gonna you’re probably gonna take action. Yeah. Yeah. You know. So, um, that’s what’s brilliant about Gary. And that’s how I’ve started writing. So like,

Shelly Miller 

yeah, so back up. Yo. So we we wrote every day. Yes. A letter that we were provided by Martin. Yes. And so what did it do for you?

Mike Miller 

Well, so my, you know, I thought that I was good, huh? Right. So I did I did as well in your head think, Okay. What would it feel like to feel like I’m good? I’m a pro at something. Right? Okay. Then expect that you’re going to get like 20% better when you do a course? Yes. Right. Okay. But at the end of the course, you’ve actually grown like four times better.

Shelly Miller 

Very good point. And, and that never happens.

Mike Miller 

No. so shocking.

Shelly Miller 

I’m assuming that our listeners get courses, they purchase courses like we do.

Mike Miller 

Yes.

Shelly Miller 

And a fourth of the courses that you purchase. Maybe if you’re lucky or good. Yes. And give you a real obvious step up from where you were like that? Hardly ever. That’s rare. That hardly ever happens. Yeah,

Mike Miller 

most of the time. It’s a waste of money. It is hand time. You know, like, oh, man, I wasted money and time.

Shelly Miller 

Yes. Unfortunately. Now, when you get older, you’re more concerned about the time they are the money. It’s like,

Shelly Miller 

tick tock, tick tock.

Shelly Miller 

And they wonder why you get less patient as you get older? I know.

Mike Miller 

Let me see. Yeah. Like, I feel like let’s go on. Yeah, I’m gonna die soon. Come on. Pick up the pace. Exactly. So um, so this course, like, exceeded my expectations beyond my wildest imaginings.

Shelly Miller 

And as did mine, because of what I saw in seven days, you know, and a little background, I’m the person that I can sit there with word open. Yeah. And I can see the cursor flashing. Yeah. And I’m like, going, Oh, this is so painful. Like, I would rather go have a military trainer, like make me jog 24 miles. And if you know me, you would know I don’t want to do that. So if I think the cursor is worse, that should tell you something. So I’ve gotten better over the years with that, because I know how to prep for it. So I don’t do that so much. But to be in this place, where not only in seven days of writing these seven days of doing this consecutively. I feel excited. I don’t notice the white screen with the cursor going, I go, Oh, I’m going to tackle this. I can’t wait to do this. I know how to make this. I know where I want to go. I know how to get this to flow to an obvious conclusion. I’ve never done that before. And I’ve also never felt a little anxious. The morning before I had to write something you know, I’m always like, oh, because I want it to be good. Michael and I are both perfectionist. So we want to make sure that what we put out for ourselves and anyone is perfect. Yes. So we always have a little bit of you know, we want to move a little tension.

Shelly Miller 

Yeah, we want it to be good. We want it to be the best. Right?

Shelly Miller  

And so this class has given me the ability to I know it will be when I sit down.

Mike Miller 

Yeah.

Shelly Miller 

And that is unbelievable. I mean, I used to take for our emails that I write I used to take to round two hours for each. The first email I wrote after the first seven days took me 14 minutes. I timed it. Wow. shocked. I was shocked. And I wanted to go have a party when I was done, like a true sense of accomplishment. You know,

Mike Miller 

usually take to have like an hour and 45 minutes to go do anything. Exactly. Yeah. That’s that’s what I’ve experienced too. Yeah. And so Gary Halbert always said that, you know, from the courses I bought from Gary Halbert, I mean, I bought I bought every course you know, Dan Kennedy. Gary Halbert? Yes, Gary Bencivenga. Yeah, we’ve bought a lot. Yeah. Because we love copyright. I have all Eugene Schwartz is, you know, ads. And I mean, I have almost everyone, we do have a huge swipe file. Um, we’ve studied this. Gary says that you want to have, like, if you have to write a letter, you have a certain amount of time. One third of that time should be research. One third should be writing the original, the first draft and the other third, the last third should be editing.

Shelly Miller 

Yes

Mike Miller 

well, here’s what I found. That’s what I was doing before. Uh huh. But while I’ve been doing this, like, seven days in, you know, to Martin’s course, I started realizing that I was writing one draft.

Shelly Miller 

Yes

Mike Miller 

yes, just a first draft. And then I would give it to you to edit it. And you’re like, well, what’s the problem?

Shelly Miller 

Yeah. So so we always read each other’s copy. Yeah. You know, we were the second I. And that’s another thing that’s changed with this course. So we just completed it. So we’ve been doing it now for the 90 days or 45 days.

Mike Miller 

And unconscious absorption

Shelly Miller 

also the editing time for the other person is less. Yeah, the other person reads it and goes, that’s good to go. Yeah. I mean, it’s, that’s also another amazing point to me. Because usually, you know, we have different styles, and we know what they should say. So we usually have some changes. Well, we’ve both been doing such a good job, that there’s no changes. I mean, another testament to how much better our coffee has become with this course.

Mike Miller 

Exactly. Yeah. It’s like night and day. It is. And we were good. Yes. You know, and now it’s like, you don’t have to work on trying to get it to flow from exactly suck you in and then just lead you’re right down to where there’s no other option,

Shelly Miller 

right.

Mike Miller 

But but not leave anything hanging.

Shelly Miller 

Right.

Mike Miller 

You know, like, there’s a you realize, you know, unconsciously I realize, now that you can start with a story and have a moral to that story. But you’ve got to continue with that moral into your copy. Yes. Right. That’s the first way of doing it. Or there’s something that Richard bandler, one of the co founders of NLP always talked about, and he uses in his trainings, and that’s looping. What that is, is I’ll start a story. And then I’ll just abruptly start another story. Yes, but every one of these, when I go to start another story, I leave you with a cliffhanger. Like, and that’s when I learned the secret to more sales and marketing success. But there was this lady, yes. Who I was going to church with. See what I mean, see how I did that? Yeah, so I left you with a cliffhanger. And that loop is open. Uh huh. And so in the back of your mind, you’re like, what is that secret? Right? So then you start another story. And then you can do the same thing. And you can open loops. You can open as many loops as you can consciously keep track of.

Shelly Miller 

Yes, right great point.

Mike Miller 

The the speaker, the listener needs to kind of feel like this is moving somewhere, though. Like their understanding. So they have to be able to, to kind of be enthralled by what you’re saying. Right? But So anyway, you’ve opened loops. Now, you go back and you close them in order.

Shelly Miller 

Right. Right. And that’s, that’s so it’s, it’s, it’s twofold. You got to make sure that if you open them, you close them. Yeah. Or, and I think our listeners will understand this as well. You’re you’re reading a note that seems to go nowhere and has a whole bunch of statements. Yes. Because there were a whole bunch of loops opened and never closed. Right? So you can see that doesn’t work. That just leaves people hanging in and wondering why am I reading this note? I don’t I don’t know what I’m supposed to do or when I’m supposed to be learning?

Mike Miller 

Exactly. Yeah. It’s just like, here’s the statement. Here’s the statement. Here’s the statement. Yes, maybe things you want to hear about. But you can’t your head can’t put them together in any kind of logical sequence. Like you would have to be like a fan. You know, like, this is your hobby, and I have to have that training on this. Right? That’s the only reason you’d buy it. You know, I mean, yeah, because if it doesn’t flow, you’re not gonna buy. Yep. And it shouldn’t go. If it doesn’t flow, it won’t go

Shelly Miller 

Yes. So don’t send it to your don’t send it to your email list or out to Andrew direct mail you you need it needs to flow. Yes. And give them a logical progression to the next action period. That’s how it goes.

Mike Miller 

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, two people we wanted to shout out thank you for all the knowledge and information. Lauretta Hannon yes she has a book trainings classes where you know writing classes and they happen from time to time and Martin Martin Messier, of dailyNLP.com his modeling classes excellent. I would have paid 10 times more because the values there it is the best copywriting course I’ve ever taken.

Shelly Miller 

Definitely. Lauretta Hannon is the Cracker Queen. Yes, that’s thecrackerqueen.com Awesome. All right.

Mike Miller 

Well, that’s all the time we have right now. So we’ll see you next Thursday.

Shelly Miller 

Thanks again for listening to the mind bro Marketing Podcast. Make sure to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Google podcast Stitcher, and wherever podcasts are sold. Plus, check us out on YouTube. Grab some marketing tips and insight and subscribe to our channel while you’re there.

About Shelly Miller

Entrepreneur, marketer and social psychologist - I help you make the most of your business with marketing, online and offline.

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